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[Music]

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okay Jim well let's take it from the top

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so I used to be the aviation editor of a

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magazine called Jane's Defence weekly

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it's a very it's it's still probably the

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premier military affairs magazine in the

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world but it's based here in the UK I

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was its aviation and I became its

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aviation editor in 1987 and that was

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renowned as an interesting time to

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become editor of that magazine or

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aviation editor of that magazine because

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there was a lot of interesting stuff

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happening in the so-called black world

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of of aerospace at the time back in the

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late 80s there was a huge pile of

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reagan-era secrets pending coming in

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there had been stealth projects that had

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been begun about a decade earlier under

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Carter and so Reagan in 1988 his

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administration unveiled two secret

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aircraft programs one was the f-117

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stealth fighter and the other was the

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b-2 stealth bomber the 117 stealth

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fighter had been totally developed in

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the black in complete secrecy and people

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had had snippets I mean I as a defense

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journalist professional had heard of

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course whispers that this era aeroplanes

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existed but it wasn't until it was

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unveiled that we knew what it looked

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like and it it it came out of the out of

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the blackest as they say and where

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exactly was it built if you know yeah

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well it was built by the Lockheed Martin

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skunk works a very famous aerospace body

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that develops technologies secretly in

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the black it's been going it had has

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been going since the end of the Second

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World War and has developed a lot of

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secret stuff like the u-2 spy plane the

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lockheed blackbird very fast flying and

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then latterly in the 1980s it had

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developed stealth you know and we're

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precisely the reason I'm asking is that

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turbo says that these planes that he not

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planes crash

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left Tic Tac crafts were built at plant

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42 in Palmdale California where a lot of

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these black operations happened was that

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plant 42 around in those days and is

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that where you believe this was built

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sure

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I mean plot plant 42 in Palmdale is the

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home or was the home to a number of

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secret aircraft developments including

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the b2 and the f-117 stealth fighter so

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there is precedent for black stuff

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secret stuff having been built out there

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in the Mojave Desert no question about

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that

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I think the question we have to ask

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ourselves in this whole tic-tac saga is

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could an unprecedented aerospace

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technology and found actually aerospace

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is the wrong word if you look at the

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tic-tac video it does not aerospace does

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not describe what we saw there in the

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conventional sense which is where the

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whole thing opens up from being about

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you know my domain and I'm talking about

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you know a heritage here from the night

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late-1980s of covering this stuff as a

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reporter right through the 1990s and

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into the 2000s I mean you asked me about

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my book behind for zero point that was

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my 10 year investigation through the

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aerospace and defense world into

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antigravity could top-secret

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anti-gravity technology have been

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developed going back years

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I mean decades right back to the 50s and

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and even the Second World War to explain

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what people see as UFOs in the sky

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because I'm a dyed-in-the-wool aerospace

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and defense guy I need to kick the tires

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of stuff to know that it's real and

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that's what the book was about and it

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was published in 2001 and I'm pleased to

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say is sort of still rumbling on in

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cyberspace and elsewhere so yeah I sort

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of have history in this stuff and it's

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all come full circle a bit with tic-tac

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and the conclusion of the book was what

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as far as where we are in that hunt well

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in the hunt I go

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through everything I literally I started

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with an enigma actually because in the

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1950s the whole bunch of aerospace and

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defense companies

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I mean well-known household names even

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today like Boeing and Lockheed started

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talking about anti-gravity technology as

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if it was just around the corner you

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know we are on the verge we're on the

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bran literally on the verge of breaking

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through with this technology I hadn't

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come across this before or and I thought

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what is it why isn't anyone talking

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about this I mean this is pretty

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interesting if they were talking about

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this stuff back in the 1950s why isn't

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it talked about today well of course it

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actually opens up a huge can of worms

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because certainly 20 years ago 25 years

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ago when I was investigating this book

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this was such a taboo subject it was

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like it was a different era you couldn't

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talk about anti-gravity you couldn't

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talk about UFOs without being dismissed

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as some kind of crank so I had to

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investigate this stuff on the sly so I

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was going about my day-to-day

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investigative nine-to-five reporting but

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in the meantime wherever I went I was

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asking this question do you think

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top-secret anti-gravity technology could

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have been developed since the 1950s and

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bit by bit I sort of got people to talk

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and they were very reluctant for the

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reasons I said they didn't want to be

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seen as cranks hell I didn't want to be

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seen as a crank I mean I was really

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worried about losing my job at Jaynes

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which is an incredibly respected

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publication but bit by bit I you know

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this I kind of eat the story out it went

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from the Nazi era when sure enough you

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know the Nazis were looking at some

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pretty esoteric stuff it went through

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the 1950s which is where as I said I'd

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pick the story up through the 60s it

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kind of went a bit dead then in the 70s

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we started getting that that sort of

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stealth stuff that I spoke about at the

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beginning where people were seeing

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things in the night skies over the

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Nevada desert they couldn't explain is

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that a flying saucer don't know and then

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it went on into the 1980s when NASA

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started testing anti-gravity technology

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now by the end I did not find a single

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piece of smoking gun evidence to say

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that the u.s. or anyone else had

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developed this stuff but there was lots

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of circumstantial evidence to show that

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people were very interested they've

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always been interested in it the black

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world of aerospace and defense

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technology is interested in any

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breakthrough however ridiculous the

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premise might seem at the beginning so

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no smoking gun but lots of

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circumstantial evidence that this had

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been looked at for decades in talked

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briefly about the science of it you know

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is it ridiculous or is it not because as

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you point out scientists have been

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talking about this for a long time sure

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they have know the science I mean isn't

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ridiculous yes it is currently I mean

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obviously impossible according to the

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Newtonian Einsteinian vision version of

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physics there is no anti-gravity force

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that has been discovered

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now cut forward 20 years since I wrote

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that book and we're beginning to see the

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emergence of some physics that does

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begin to explain that it's no accident

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that I call that book the hunt for zero

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point zero point actually refers to

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something called zero-point energy more

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recently though that zero-point energy

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is known as something called vacuum

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fluctuations it's the easiest way to

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explain that Jim is is that space empty

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space as classical physics always

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understood it is now deemed by quantum

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physicists not to be empty at all it is

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teeming with background fluctuations of

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little particles that pop out of

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literally nowhere and fill empty space

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now the theory is is that if you can

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perturb those vacuum fluctuations and

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physicists are now looking at ways to do

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that according to the theory you may be

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able to get ant some kind of

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anti-gravity effect because that those

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fluctuations are the sub

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trait from which all the forces that we

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know about electromagnetism gravity the

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strong and the weak nuclear force all of

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those forces are now deemed to flow from

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those little itty-bitty vacuum

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fluctuations that fill empty space and

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this is only now beginning to be

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realized and recognized so is the u.s.

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military interested in those black

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vacuum fluctuations is it interested in

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zero-point technology absolutely it is

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has it cracked the conundrum well that's

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a whole different matter and you know I

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always err on the side of caution I'm

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but you know for the for the purposes of

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this subject and for the purposes of

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tick-tack of course it's fun to

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speculate and what about the Reagan Star

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Wars program it was that really the

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beginning of this big push for black

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projects in the eighties no not really I

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mean as I said in that the real stimulus

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for black projects was the the stealth

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revolution which kind of kicked off in

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the late 1970s but it really got going

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in the 80s when the Reagan

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administration just flowed untold

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billions of black dollars into stealth

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and out of that as I said emerge the

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f-117 stealth fighter the b-2 stealth

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bomber and a number of other secret

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programs that were only just beginning

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to see today but couldn't some of that

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money also been going to anti-gravity

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projects it could have I mean if

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physicists had made the breakthrough it

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could have but you know as we've been

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discussing the issue is had physics made

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the breakthrough I mean this is as it's

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it's bigger than the physics

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breakthrough that led to the bomb in the

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Second World War you know that was the

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triumph of theory over programmatics it

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was the theory behind the bomb that led

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to the bomb being detonated in 1945 the

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atom bomb there is no evidence to say

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hey as we were discussing earlier that

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physicists have made a breakthrough that

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allows them

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to develop nuts-and-bolts hardware know

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that leave sorry sorry you just say your

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audio cut out a little bit sorry keep

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going I'd kind of wrapped up that just

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yeah that the rap was to say there is no

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theory that allows us to believe that a

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breakthrough has been made in

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anti-gravity hmm have you heard of Sandy

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kid yes out of Scotland yeah I've heard

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of Sandy kid out of Scotland in fact I

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think he might have crept into the hunt

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for zero-point buy by way ever mentioned

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nothing more okay is there any

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particular discovery that he made that's

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mean the thing is as I say you know I

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ten years of investigations led to loads

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of what I call you know backroom

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inventors guys who tinkered around with

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bits of technology in their garden shed

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you know this is no disrespect to Sandy

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kid but you know that was the sort of

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level at which he was investigating this

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stuff it was literally tinkering around

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with bits of hardware you know somewhere

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00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:30,310
at the bottom of his garden and yeah he

274
00:12:36,810 --> 00:12:34,900
was one of them it there are probably

275
00:12:38,250 --> 00:12:36,820
dozens of others who've come out of the

276
00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:38,260
woodwork to say they've developed stuff

277
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,300
but there is no hard and fast evidence

278
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:42,880
to say that they did otherwise trust me

279
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:44,050
I'd have a bit of that kit you know I'd

280
00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:45,850
have the kit on my desk and I'd be

281
00:12:49,260 --> 00:12:47,500
flying it round now in front of you

282
00:12:51,810 --> 00:12:49,270
well is it fair to summarise the

283
00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:51,820
scientific community as believing that

284
00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:55,150
this is possible the laws of physics

285
00:13:00,690 --> 00:12:58,210
allow for this possibility it's a matter

286
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:00,700
of figuring out exactly how to do it and

287
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,410
it's something that will if it hasn't

288
00:13:07,380 --> 00:13:04,240
been discovered already will eventually

289
00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:07,390
be discovered as opposed to no this is

290
00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:10,390
these guys are crackpots and this is

291
00:13:18,390 --> 00:13:15,540
this is not possible listen I am all for

292
00:13:20,010 --> 00:13:18,400
what is possible and if I ask you one of

293
00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:20,020
the things that infuriates me about

294
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,320
science is science is the sort of

295
00:13:30,290 --> 00:13:25,920
conventional science world

296
00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:30,300
view that you know new breakthroughs in

297
00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:32,220
this sort of area will will never be

298
00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:34,020
possible you know a lot of scientists

299
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:35,520
just say this is never going to happen

300
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:39,330
period but we have to remember that 20

301
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:41,700
years ago it was only 20 just over 20

302
00:13:49,490 --> 00:13:44,760
years ago that it was discovered that

303
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:49,500
the the universe the the the the the

304
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:52,320
universe is is expanding and the rate of

305
00:13:59,120 --> 00:13:55,490
expansion contrary to what science

306
00:14:02,360 --> 00:13:59,130
taught us is not slowing down at all

307
00:14:07,550 --> 00:14:02,370
it's actually accelerating that has led

308
00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:07,560
to a discussion about dark matter and

309
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:09,720
dark energy I'm sure you've heard about

310
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:11,730
that discussion it's you know it's it's

311
00:14:17,570 --> 00:14:13,710
it's what cosmologists are talking about

312
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:17,580
all the time I'm now what is dark matter

313
00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:22,170
and dark energy why is it speeding up

314
00:14:31,790 --> 00:14:26,760
the acceleration of the you you know is

315
00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:31,800
telling us well the fact is is is 95% of

316
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:33,720
the known universe is made up of this

317
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:36,570
stuff only 5% of the universe is made up

318
00:14:42,110 --> 00:14:38,850
of stuff you know matter that we

319
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:42,120
understand and yet science still says

320
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:46,050
that that 5% is what we should be paying

321
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:50,130
attention to and the 95% is just simply

322
00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:52,770
beyond us well I don't believe that you

323
00:14:58,250 --> 00:14:55,320
know I believe that that science if it

324
00:15:03,110 --> 00:14:58,260
is prepared to look at things with a

325
00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:03,120
rigorous curious eye will will uncover

326
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,860
these anomalies and in time and these

327
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:06,720
anomalies will become things that are

328
00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:08,370
known I mean that's just the direction

329
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:11,460
of science so anti-gravity sure there is

330
00:15:15,380 --> 00:15:13,050
nothing to say it exists at the moment

331
00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:15,390
but I've no doubt that in the future if

332
00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:17,340
it hasn't already been discovered

333
00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:21,390
somewhere in the black it will it will

334
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:23,700
be made manifest it will appear it will

335
00:15:28,370 --> 00:15:26,010
will crack it what do you think about

336
00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:28,380
these US Navy patents that were issued

337
00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:30,120
this year have you had a chance to look

338
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,110
at those I've had a brief look at them I

339
00:15:39,769 --> 00:15:36,720
think it's really intriguing I think of

340
00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:39,779
course it's doubly intriguing that

341
00:15:46,850 --> 00:15:44,550
when the tic-tac video emerges you know

342
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:46,860
other things pop out of the woodwork as

343
00:15:53,379 --> 00:15:49,529
well like these US Navy patents that

344
00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:53,389
describe something remarkably similar

345
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:55,649
does that mean that the Navy has

346
00:16:01,689 --> 00:15:57,360
developed something like this in the

347
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:01,699
black in secret not necessarily as I

348
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:04,050
routinely found when I was going through

349
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:06,649
my research in the hunt for zero point

350
00:16:13,879 --> 00:16:10,560
disinformation in this sphere is rife it

351
00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:13,889
is everywhere and it suits a lot of

352
00:16:19,790 --> 00:16:17,160
people to muddy the waters because when

353
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:19,800
you have muddied waters which is what

354
00:16:24,319 --> 00:16:21,930
you have all the time with the UFO

355
00:16:26,179 --> 00:16:24,329
phenomenon you can hide a whole load of

356
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:26,189
stuff in there that you might want to

357
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:28,680
hide a whole lot of secret stuff and it

358
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:30,930
becomes a very convenient smokescreen

359
00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:34,290
for stuff to be hidden in and behind so

360
00:16:40,579 --> 00:16:38,550
when those patent papers emerged I'm not

361
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:40,589
saying that they're not real they might

362
00:16:46,699 --> 00:16:43,620
be but my training tells me to look at

363
00:16:50,749 --> 00:16:46,709
that with a very jaundiced eye and to go

364
00:16:52,939 --> 00:16:50,759
who's whose purposes does this serve by

365
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:52,949
all of this stuff getting out there are

366
00:16:58,490 --> 00:16:55,740
we trying to fool the Russians are we

367
00:17:00,590 --> 00:16:58,500
trying to fool the Chinese or do we end

368
00:17:03,259 --> 00:17:00,600
up just fooling ourselves and of course

369
00:17:06,829 --> 00:17:03,269
that's the nature of of this phenomenon

370
00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:06,839
you get a you get a you get something

371
00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:08,699
called blowback that comes with it and

372
00:17:14,990 --> 00:17:12,230
blowback is a CIA term for

373
00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:15,000
disinformation operations that then come

374
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:17,569
back to haunt you because this stuff

375
00:17:22,370 --> 00:17:20,250
comes back as an anomaly that you can't

376
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:22,380
explain but actually it was probably a

377
00:17:27,919 --> 00:17:25,650
rumor or a whisper that you started 15

378
00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:27,929
or 20 years ago so you know we have to

379
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:29,640
watch for this stuff all the time those

380
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:31,650
are the science that is described in

381
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:35,039
that patent pass the smell test in your

382
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:38,610
view well I have talked to a number of

383
00:17:46,159 --> 00:17:43,710
people about it again in theory I mean

384
00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:46,169
there's lots of stuff that is that it's

385
00:17:51,950 --> 00:17:49,260
good about it it it it makes sense it

386
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,960
ticks boxes on many many levels but then

387
00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:53,520
there are other people who say no

388
00:17:58,220 --> 00:17:55,590
you know actually it's just smoke and

389
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,230
mirrors it it doesn't pass muster this

390
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:00,480
is someone just trying to get something

391
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:04,080
through and past the Patent Office to be

392
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:05,520
honest Jim I don't know what the truth

393
00:18:10,010 --> 00:18:07,320
is I'm not an engineer I'm not a

394
00:18:12,650 --> 00:18:10,020
scientist and not a physicist I just

395
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:12,660
look at this with as I say a sort of

396
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:18,810
cautionary jaded eye the simple truth is

397
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:22,230
is in this realm once you start to look

398
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:25,980
into it nothing is what it seems but at

399
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:28,770
a minimum it does demonstrate that the

400
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:32,640
US military is noodling around in this

401
00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:36,330
area oh for sure and and I think it's

402
00:18:42,290 --> 00:18:38,550
been noodling around in it in an or for

403
00:18:43,670 --> 00:18:42,300
an awful long time doodling around with

404
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:43,680
potentially billions of dollars I think

405
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:45,210
that you pointed out in in one of your

406
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:48,330
books that there's at least 20 billion

407
00:18:54,740 --> 00:18:50,910
dollars in the defense budget annually

408
00:18:56,930 --> 00:18:54,750
that goes into black projects oh that

409
00:18:59,810 --> 00:18:56,940
was then it's much more like a hundred

410
00:19:01,520 --> 00:18:59,820
billion now I mean imagine what can be

411
00:19:03,260 --> 00:19:01,530
done I mean I know the government is

412
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:03,270
massive all wasting money so you got to

413
00:19:06,620 --> 00:19:04,890
kind of cut that number in half as far

414
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:06,630
as the actual benefit you get from it

415
00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:09,330
but fifty billion dollars a year if you

416
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:11,700
gave that to Silicon Valley in those

417
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:14,310
girls sure what and you've been doing it

418
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:17,490
for twenty years or thirty years not ten

419
00:19:23,780 --> 00:19:20,400
billions longer 10 billion 20 billion 30

420
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:23,790
billion that is a lot of money that

421
00:19:28,790 --> 00:19:25,530
ought to be able to result in some

422
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:28,800
pretty significant breakthroughs sure

423
00:19:33,710 --> 00:19:31,410
and and we always have to keep an open

424
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:33,720
mind of course that it hasn't I mean it

425
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,460
in the if so quite simply it may have

426
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:40,080
led to a breakthrough but the whole

427
00:19:44,420 --> 00:19:42,210
point about doing that in the black is

428
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:44,430
that you keep it secret you know when I

429
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:46,110
was covering stealth projects way back

430
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:49,290
in the 80s 90s and in the early 2000s

431
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:52,860
there were projects there that people

432
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:55,770
sources would tell me about but that

433
00:20:00,080 --> 00:19:57,570
have still not seen the light of day and

434
00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:00,090
these are conventional stealthy aircraft

435
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:02,700
projects that use you know regular

436
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:05,400
engines and regular wings and regular

437
00:20:09,050 --> 00:20:07,050
tail surfaces

438
00:20:13,550 --> 00:20:09,060
those haven't emerged to see the light

439
00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:13,560
of day in possibly 2530 years some of

440
00:20:18,020 --> 00:20:16,440
them so if you've had if you've really

441
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:18,030
developed a breakthrough like

442
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:20,490
anti-gravity there's no way that you're

443
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:22,620
gonna just pop that out of the woodwork

444
00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:25,200
and reveal it willy-nilly it's true

445
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:27,630
benefit is that you keep it secret you

446
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:29,370
don't want your adversaries to know that

447
00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:30,600
you've got it

448
00:20:36,980 --> 00:20:33,630
now with Tic Tac it's interesting

449
00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:36,990
because what you may be doing is you may

450
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:39,720
be flushing information out of your

451
00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:43,290
adversary's camps you know China and

452
00:20:50,690 --> 00:20:45,630
Russia have become resurgent they are

453
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:50,700
pouring billions of rubles and dollars

454
00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:53,690
and all sorts into their own programs

455
00:21:00,080 --> 00:20:57,240
secret programs you might want to flush

456
00:21:03,230 --> 00:21:00,090
out what they themselves are doing with

457
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:03,240
a bit of you know by dropping a stone

458
00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:05,700
into a metaphorical pond watching the

459
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:07,980
ripples go out and seeing what comes

460
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:10,290
back so that maybe that's what a tic-tac

461
00:21:20,270 --> 00:21:15,890
is about but it does appear to be real

462
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:20,280
stuff that real pilots have seen and

463
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:22,890
encountered in skies on both sides of

464
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:25,440
the US seaboard so it's it's not a

465
00:21:29,690 --> 00:21:27,660
simple story as we know yeah well it

466
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:29,700
works let's get to the tic-tac next

467
00:21:33,620 --> 00:21:31,650
although I want you raised one question

468
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:33,630
in my mind and that is the ability to

469
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:36,480
keep secrets because one thing that

470
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:38,850
struck me about the possibility that

471
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:41,370
these could be us craft is like man it

472
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,690
just doesn't seem to me they'd be able

473
00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:44,400
to keep that secret but can you give us

474
00:21:49,550 --> 00:21:47,190
some examples of things that the US

475
00:21:51,620 --> 00:21:49,560
military was able to keep truly secret

476
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:51,630
for an extended period of time and then

477
00:21:58,850 --> 00:21:56,010
ultimately was released sure absolutely

478
00:22:00,440 --> 00:21:58,860
the stealth fighter for one the f-117

479
00:22:04,850 --> 00:22:00,450
stealth fighter built by the Lockheed

480
00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:04,860
Martin skunk works was prepared in

481
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:07,140
secret with flying demonstrators in the

482
00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:11,280
late 1970s they were never seen they

483
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:17,040
were never revealed in 1983 the aircraft

484
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:19,110
actually entered squadrons service in a

485
00:22:25,399 --> 00:22:20,970
remote base in

486
00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:25,409
called Tonopah some 50 aircraft were

487
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:28,500
built and fielded they flew around the

488
00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:33,270
desert Southwest for 4-5 years people

489
00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:37,080
saw things on sort of moonlit nights

490
00:22:42,289 --> 00:22:39,990
they couldn't explain the f-117 looked

491
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:42,299
pretty odd I mean it by conventional

492
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:43,850
airplane

493
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:46,710
in any conventional aeroplane sense it

494
00:22:51,890 --> 00:22:48,780
didn't look like a an aeroplane anyone

495
00:22:53,779 --> 00:22:51,900
had seen but it was only in 1988 when

496
00:22:56,779 --> 00:22:53,789
that program was revealed by the Reagan

497
00:22:59,450 --> 00:22:56,789
administration that people went oh my

498
00:23:01,850 --> 00:22:59,460
god this thing is real so that program

499
00:23:05,149 --> 00:23:01,860
no one spoke thousands of people worked

500
00:23:08,330 --> 00:23:05,159
on it in five years it had been in

501
00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:08,340
squadron service and no one revealed it

502
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:10,830
I mean there were whispers only about it

503
00:23:15,890 --> 00:23:13,770
so yeah these things are kept secret and

504
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:15,900
they the secrets hold for a very long

505
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:17,940
time and looking back at that one as an

506
00:23:22,909 --> 00:23:20,970
example mmm looking back at it was there

507
00:23:24,919 --> 00:23:22,919
some leaps was there anything that was

508
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:24,929
written about it at all or speculated

509
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:27,570
about it during that time period there

510
00:23:33,770 --> 00:23:30,570
were there were leaks there were

511
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:33,780
snippets in Aviation Week which is a

512
00:23:38,539 --> 00:23:36,330
very well-respected trade journal in the

513
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:38,549
US my own magazine Jane's Defence weekly

514
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:40,740
carried snippets and rumors about this

515
00:23:45,490 --> 00:23:42,450
thing because we all have sources in the

516
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:45,500
business but the great thing about a

517
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:47,730
compartmentalised program as its called

518
00:23:53,299 --> 00:23:51,120
in that no one gets to see the big

519
00:23:56,570 --> 00:23:53,309
picture but all the bits of the program

520
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:56,580
are held in silos is that anyone who

521
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,890
leaks information can only leak about

522
00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:00,480
the part they know in their particular

523
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:02,700
silo that's why it's called a

524
00:24:09,580 --> 00:24:06,690
compartmentalized program so those leaks

525
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:09,590
when when when they did emerge were very

526
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:13,919
indistinct they were very half sort of

527
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:18,480
half based rumors so yeah we we picked

528
00:24:24,350 --> 00:24:21,330
them up but it was nothing definitive in

529
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:24,360
that respect they actually mirror a lot

530
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:26,130
of the stuff that comes out about UFOs

531
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:29,250
because people talk about UFOs you know

532
00:24:34,460 --> 00:24:31,610
they get to see so much of the program

533
00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:34,470
but they don't know the whole thing and

534
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:37,500
you know are UFO's real does the

535
00:24:43,879 --> 00:24:40,080
government know the truth about UFOs

536
00:24:49,299 --> 00:24:43,889
well you know who knows have you picked

537
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:49,309
up any so-called leaks that there is a

538
00:24:56,899 --> 00:24:54,809
US military tic-tac type program such as

539
00:25:00,590 --> 00:24:56,909
what Mike tur bird is saying is either

540
00:25:03,340 --> 00:25:00,600
first to leak this in your viewer have

541
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:03,350
you heard others leak something similar

542
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:08,159
well okay I mean let's let's talk just a

543
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:09,809
little bit about tic-tac in the sense

544
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:13,049
that you know that the program that

545
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:18,990
monitored unconventional aircraft in you

546
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:26,190
know in in US airspace and and other

547
00:25:32,899 --> 00:25:28,110
people's airspace that was a real

548
00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:32,909
program that was called a tip and so

549
00:25:38,869 --> 00:25:37,080
that was a monitoring program what

550
00:25:42,379 --> 00:25:38,879
you're asking is was there a program

551
00:25:46,009 --> 00:25:42,389
that built technology that looks like

552
00:25:49,460 --> 00:25:46,019
tic-tac well the simple truth is we

553
00:25:54,740 --> 00:25:49,470
don't know you know in all my experience

554
00:26:00,220 --> 00:25:54,750
of covering aerospace you know and I did

555
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:00,230
that job in Jane's for 15 15 years I

556
00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:04,200
always wanted to follow the money I yeah

557
00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:05,820
I'm not

558
00:26:10,190 --> 00:26:07,980
I don't know whether Mike turbine knows

559
00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:10,200
this stuff for real or not but if he

560
00:26:14,419 --> 00:26:11,820
doesn't know it for real if he's not

561
00:26:17,649 --> 00:26:14,429
part of the program he genuinely doesn't

562
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:17,659
know this stuff is watertight held

563
00:26:24,169 --> 00:26:22,289
secrecy if he was part of it then he's a

564
00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:24,179
whistleblower and he knows the truth if

565
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:25,740
he wasn't a part of it

566
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:29,220
it's really unlikely that he would be

567
00:26:33,710 --> 00:26:31,710
given all the facts that's just not how

568
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:33,720
these black programs work and it's not

569
00:26:39,289 --> 00:26:37,200
how people reveal it and in fact the

570
00:26:41,509 --> 00:26:39,299
disinformation piece that goes alongside

571
00:26:44,180 --> 00:26:41,519
that as we were talking earlier is very

572
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:44,190
very active and I would be incredibly

573
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:46,529
cautious if I were him or anyone else

574
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:48,090
who is given infamy

575
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:51,510
from so-called sources who profess to

576
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:53,370
know that what they are getting is the

577
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:55,350
absolute truth because like any good

578
00:26:59,930 --> 00:26:58,320
reporter or investigator I'm sure you'd

579
00:27:01,820 --> 00:26:59,940
know this with your background yourself

580
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:01,830
that you would have to take the

581
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:04,140
information from multiple sources before

582
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:07,049
you yourself declare it to be true okay

583
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,150
so tell me what your reaction was to

584
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:11,279
first seeing that Tic Tac video and then

585
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:15,690
what's we've learned about it since well

586
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:18,650
I saw the videos like everyone else and

587
00:27:25,659 --> 00:27:21,360
my immediate reaction was that's

588
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:25,669
interesting a lot of stuff can get faked

589
00:27:31,940 --> 00:27:29,250
but you know as we were saying a minute

590
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:31,950
or two ago as a reporter as an

591
00:27:38,180 --> 00:27:34,919
investigator as just an analyst of this

592
00:27:40,850 --> 00:27:38,190
or any other subject if you fuse your

593
00:27:43,639 --> 00:27:40,860
data from multiple sources you you start

594
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:43,649
to build up a picture of the truth so

595
00:27:49,570 --> 00:27:47,250
the moment I start seeing stories in the

596
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:49,580
New York Times in the Washington Post

597
00:27:54,620 --> 00:27:52,590
then the Navy itself comes out and says

598
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:54,630
yeah this is true we encountered stuff

599
00:27:59,620 --> 00:27:56,700
in our skies that we can't explain and

600
00:28:02,570 --> 00:27:59,630
now we're encouraging our pilots to

601
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,580
disclose these encounters when they meet

602
00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:04,559
them they won't be penalized or punished

603
00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:06,990
when they do as happened or might have

604
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:10,860
happened in the past then you see the

605
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:13,289
witness testimony of the pilots and

606
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:15,840
their crew encountered this stuff and

607
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:18,330
the radar operators on the ships who

608
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:21,330
also received their own data you know

609
00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:23,850
now I'm starting to fuse multiple bits

610
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:29,100
of data from all over this story and it

611
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:35,690
begins to have a AAA feel to it a shape

612
00:28:41,899 --> 00:28:38,970
so undoubtedly in my mind something

613
00:28:43,789 --> 00:28:41,909
happened something happened in 2004 to

614
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:43,799
the Nimitz carrier group and I think

615
00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:45,570
things have been happening since which

616
00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:48,600
have genuinely perturbed and disturbed

617
00:28:53,870 --> 00:28:50,760
the Navy otherwise they wouldn't be

618
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:53,880
coming out with with the stories in the

619
00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:55,289
papers that they have been saying this

620
00:29:00,860 --> 00:28:58,500
stuff is real but then you have to take

621
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:00,870
a deeper dive into it what did they see

622
00:29:06,170 --> 00:29:01,710
that

623
00:29:08,780 --> 00:29:06,180
it I guess it gets to the nub of what

624
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:08,790
we've been talking about what technology

625
00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:12,480
is it whose technology is it what might

626
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:13,800
it be what does it mean

627
00:29:24,010 --> 00:29:20,010
it opens up a huge panoply of questions

628
00:29:27,410 --> 00:29:24,020
which are really not simple to answer

629
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:27,420
but but at its core there is a truth we

630
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:29,490
just don't know what that truth is so

631
00:29:36,770 --> 00:29:34,080
you do believe that the video is real

632
00:29:39,470 --> 00:29:36,780
and you trust the Navy when they say

633
00:29:41,930 --> 00:29:39,480
that yes this is real video and that

634
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:41,940
they truly encountered these objects

635
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:44,250
that that part you're you're believing

636
00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:52,250
thus far hey Nick hold on

637
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:55,860
yeah I'm really satisfied okay so are

638
00:30:02,600 --> 00:29:57,450
you getting this sorry yeah yeah now we

639
00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:02,610
got it go ahead go ahead okay I think

640
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:13,100
that he reported that it's seen is is

641
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:16,620
genuine so you know I've seen the

642
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:19,770
witness testimony of of commander flavor

643
00:30:23,450 --> 00:30:22,020
and the others I don't think these

644
00:30:26,930 --> 00:30:23,460
people are lying I don't think they're

645
00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:26,940
making it up you know pilots you know

646
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:30,360
they're a very close-knit breed they

647
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:33,540
have reputations to maintain you just

648
00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:35,340
wouldn't go off and make this stuff up

649
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:39,150
and as I say one person might two people

650
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:41,640
might but when you get it fused from

651
00:30:46,790 --> 00:30:44,190
multiple sources by you know on multiple

652
00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:46,800
ships I just don't think that this stuff

653
00:30:53,450 --> 00:30:49,950
is has been made up so then the very

654
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:53,460
simplistic question in my mind comes if

655
00:30:59,030 --> 00:30:56,610
you go that far is that okay then what

656
00:31:02,120 --> 00:30:59,040
is this the high level being is it

657
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:02,130
earthly or is it extraterrestrial isn't

658
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:05,850
that the obvious first question it's the

659
00:31:11,450 --> 00:31:09,210
obvious first question but I don't know

660
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:11,460
that it's it's the right question to be

661
00:31:15,539 --> 00:31:15,210
absolutely honest you know all my sort

662
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:15,549
of it

663
00:31:22,619 --> 00:31:19,330
experience of investigating conventional

664
00:31:25,859 --> 00:31:22,629
aerospace programs secret aerospace

665
00:31:30,299 --> 00:31:25,869
programs as I've said before says that

666
00:31:33,180 --> 00:31:30,309
we need to be cautious secondly if we're

667
00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:33,190
talking about UFOs I don't think this is

668
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:35,320
a binary question it's not a binary

669
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:39,039
question of are these secret government

670
00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:42,970
aircraft that we don't know about or are

671
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:45,070
they extraterrestrial aircraft there is

672
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:47,710
a whole spectrum of stuff that that

673
00:31:55,289 --> 00:31:52,450
falls in between those two poles and to

674
00:31:58,139 --> 00:31:55,299
the bigger point about what is the UFO

675
00:32:01,200 --> 00:31:58,149
phenomenon I mean that for me is the

676
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:01,210
biggest question of all because it may

677
00:32:06,259 --> 00:32:04,330
not even be simply about hardware it

678
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:06,269
could be a bigger question about

679
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:09,850
consciousness and what we perceive and

680
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:13,330
how we perceive things and that of

681
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:15,809
course is the subject of my new book

682
00:32:21,889 --> 00:32:19,710
okay tell me about that real quick so

683
00:32:27,239 --> 00:32:21,899
I've just written a book called the grid

684
00:32:29,399 --> 00:32:27,249
it came out four days ago and it is

685
00:32:31,349 --> 00:32:29,409
based on a lot of the stuff we've been

686
00:32:33,869 --> 00:32:31,359
talking about secret military programs

687
00:32:36,779 --> 00:32:33,879
but in that particular case in the in

688
00:32:40,379 --> 00:32:36,789
the story of the grid is about could the

689
00:32:43,349 --> 00:32:40,389
government or could governments not just

690
00:32:45,659 --> 00:32:43,359
hack into and manipulate data and the

691
00:32:49,349 --> 00:32:45,669
way that we've seen in government

692
00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:49,359
elections and and so forth but could

693
00:32:55,769 --> 00:32:51,940
they actually hack into consciousness

694
00:32:59,279 --> 00:32:55,779
itself the way we think the way we

695
00:33:03,659 --> 00:32:59,289
perceive things the way we construct

696
00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:03,669
reality and in a sense the UFO

697
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:06,070
phenomenon falls into that what we you

698
00:33:12,930 --> 00:33:10,330
know we we might see a circular object

699
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:12,940
out there a flying saucer

700
00:33:19,019 --> 00:33:15,369
but there's a lot of weirdness around

701
00:33:21,629 --> 00:33:19,029
the sighting you know you hear about men

702
00:33:26,340 --> 00:33:21,639
in black appearing who take evidence

703
00:33:29,390 --> 00:33:26,350
away the the the the crash retrieval

704
00:33:31,220 --> 00:33:29,400
bits that are left behind by these

705
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:31,230
if they happen to crash in the desert or

706
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:33,930
somewhere else are always incredibly

707
00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:38,510
elusive they go missing they never get

708
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:42,800
paraded in you know museums or elsewhere

709
00:33:50,450 --> 00:33:46,559
all of that is you know to me smacks of

710
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:50,460
another bigger question which is is our

711
00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:53,490
that the way we perceive things is our

712
00:33:59,090 --> 00:33:56,460
sense of reality somehow being

713
00:34:03,110 --> 00:33:59,100
manipulated and bent out of shape by

714
00:34:04,370 --> 00:34:03,120
this phenomenon and I don't know the

715
00:34:06,049 --> 00:34:04,380
answer to that but it's a pretty

716
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:06,059
intriguing question and I think it's the

717
00:34:09,830 --> 00:34:08,730
one we should start at well what is the

718
00:34:12,530 --> 00:34:09,840
science behind that

719
00:34:14,510 --> 00:34:12,540
what are we aware of that governments or

720
00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:14,520
others have been able to develop that

721
00:34:21,350 --> 00:34:16,950
could theoretically alter somebody's

722
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:21,360
consciousness well like I say I think

723
00:34:27,889 --> 00:34:25,110
that their science is now beginning to

724
00:34:29,930 --> 00:34:27,899
catch up only very recently really on

725
00:34:35,629 --> 00:34:29,940
the nature of the true nature of reality

726
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:35,639
as I said earlier there is there is an

727
00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:38,580
emerging view that the substrate of

728
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:42,860
everything that we see touch feel etc is

729
00:34:52,010 --> 00:34:49,110
actually bore these these subatomic

730
00:34:54,919 --> 00:34:52,020
particles that arise out of nowhere that

731
00:34:58,690 --> 00:34:54,929
fill empty space and give rise to the

732
00:35:02,960 --> 00:34:58,700
the fundamental forces of nature of

733
00:35:05,630 --> 00:35:02,970
gravity of electromagnetism of the

734
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:05,640
things that we literally see touch taste

735
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:11,280
smell and feel but they may also give

736
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:15,170
rise to things beyond our five senses

737
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:19,380
beyond things that we we we we

738
00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:23,010
experience reality through customarily

739
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:26,820
and if that is the case then UFOs may

740
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:29,400
also manipulate that sort of Sixth Sense

741
00:35:35,180 --> 00:35:32,610
realm the same realm that remote viewers

742
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:35,190
who were you know employed by the CIA

743
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:39,090
back in the 1970s and 80s to go spy

744
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,190
psychically on the Soviet Union that

745
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:43,200
same sort of subs

746
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,490
rate may be used by them to to derive

747
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:49,920
information psychically and it may well

748
00:35:57,710 --> 00:35:53,490
be that same realm that we perceive UFOs

749
00:36:00,410 --> 00:35:57,720
on but that for me is has become a much

750
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:00,420
more interesting question than simply is

751
00:36:06,170 --> 00:36:04,250
this stuff that people see in report

752
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:06,180
extraterrestrial on the one hand or

753
00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:08,640
secret government aircraft on the other

754
00:36:15,069 --> 00:36:12,470
I think we're dealing with a huge

755
00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:15,079
phenomenon here of our age which is

756
00:36:20,420 --> 00:36:18,060
about existence and reality itself

757
00:36:22,819 --> 00:36:20,430
something that physics is really any

758
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:22,829
just starting to get to grips with okay

759
00:36:27,339 --> 00:36:25,170
but in the case of the tic-tacs off the

760
00:36:31,550 --> 00:36:27,349
Nimitz they were also picked up on this

761
00:36:34,460 --> 00:36:31,560
radar offshore says Princeton so yeah

762
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:34,470
that take it out of the playing with

763
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:36,420
somebody's consciousness level and

764
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:38,250
because now we've got it showing up on

765
00:36:45,380 --> 00:36:42,720
radar no not at all I think these things

766
00:36:50,180 --> 00:36:45,390
whatever they are they appear to zip in

767
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:50,190
and out of dimensional space so one

768
00:36:56,180 --> 00:36:53,010
minute they are in our three-dimensional

769
00:36:59,000 --> 00:36:56,190
space the world that we perceive without

770
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:59,010
five senses one minute they're there and

771
00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:00,720
the next minute they're not they

772
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:03,390
disappear they disappear off radar they

773
00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:08,640
disappear from view so I think whatever

774
00:37:16,190 --> 00:37:11,430
they are and whoever is manipulating

775
00:37:20,089 --> 00:37:16,200
them is able to use that that realm I

776
00:37:22,970 --> 00:37:20,099
was talking about this realm of quantum

777
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:22,980
fluctuations of zero-point energy to

778
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:27,359
literally be in our world one moment and

779
00:37:32,210 --> 00:37:30,089
somewhere else the next I think they're

780
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:32,220
they're teasing us I think they're

781
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:34,140
trying to show us something that we

782
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:38,480
don't yet understand who's they

783
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:42,810
well you know again that's the $64,000

784
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:46,170
big one isn't it we don't know but we

785
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:49,050
are being shown a phenomenon that that

786
00:37:54,890 --> 00:37:53,190
that defies our everyday experience of

787
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:54,900
reality let it put me let me put it that

788
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,200
way

789
00:37:58,700 --> 00:37:56,880
well the side

790
00:38:00,289 --> 00:37:58,710
of altering consciousness and so on I

791
00:38:03,079 --> 00:38:00,299
mean that sounds to me also like an

792
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:03,089
incredible scientific breakthrough if it

793
00:38:12,739 --> 00:38:06,390
exists so is that a greater scientific

794
00:38:15,859 --> 00:38:12,749
breakthrough than anti-gravity it would

795
00:38:19,609 --> 00:38:15,869
be just as much but I think it's I think

796
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:19,619
these things are all related I mean if

797
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:23,400
we take it back a little bit we don't

798
00:38:28,489 --> 00:38:25,650
know what consciousness is we don't know

799
00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:28,499
that our what our experience of self is

800
00:38:33,410 --> 00:38:30,420
you know your everyday experience of

801
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:33,420
reality does that come from within you

802
00:38:40,479 --> 00:38:37,680
is that born of the electrochemical

803
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:40,489
reactions that go on inside your brain

804
00:38:47,180 --> 00:38:43,410
or does it come from somewhere else is

805
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:47,190
it somehow an off board experience that

806
00:38:52,430 --> 00:38:49,920
somehow we download and experience is

807
00:38:56,299 --> 00:38:52,440
everyday reality in much the same way

808
00:38:59,239 --> 00:38:56,309
that my laptop experiences its own

809
00:39:03,200 --> 00:38:59,249
reality through some data cloud I mean

810
00:39:05,839 --> 00:39:03,210
there are analogies there but you know

811
00:39:08,479 --> 00:39:05,849
given that science is at a loss to

812
00:39:10,539 --> 00:39:08,489
explain what consciousness is Jim you

813
00:39:14,569 --> 00:39:10,549
know that for me is the starting point

814
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:14,579
it's you then start to explore your and

815
00:39:19,729 --> 00:39:16,890
my everyday sense of what reality in

816
00:39:21,979 --> 00:39:19,739
existence is all kinds of things flow

817
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:21,989
from that and one of the things is you

818
00:39:26,329 --> 00:39:24,569
know to this to the point of the

819
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:26,339
discussion about what we see in the

820
00:39:32,809 --> 00:39:28,079
skies and what people see in the skies

821
00:39:35,299 --> 00:39:32,819
is is that a three-dimensional object

822
00:39:37,069 --> 00:39:35,309
that if you picked up a brick and threw

823
00:39:42,140 --> 00:39:37,079
it against that thing would it go clang

824
00:39:47,059 --> 00:39:42,150
or would it go straight through that UFO

825
00:39:49,999 --> 00:39:47,069
flying saucer whatever it is and you

826
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:50,009
know D materialize with it it's it's

827
00:39:56,479 --> 00:39:52,529
those sorts of questions that I think

828
00:39:59,180 --> 00:39:56,489
science now has to grapple with this is

829
00:40:01,630 --> 00:39:59,190
not a this is not a binary issue it's

830
00:40:03,950 --> 00:40:01,640
not about crafts that are either

831
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:03,960
extraterrestrial or or or government

832
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:09,119
it's it's a much bigger question of who

833
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:10,560
we are

834
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:12,450
what is the world that we perceive

835
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,410
around us and how do we further our

836
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:18,960
understanding both of ourselves as human

837
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:23,040
beings and of the physics that give rise

838
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:28,260
to our experience of reality but if our

839
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:29,850
reality is being manipulated there's

840
00:40:33,470 --> 00:40:31,290
still a question as to whether or not

841
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:33,480
the manipulator is earthly or

842
00:40:39,010 --> 00:40:35,730
extraterrestrial you're correct

843
00:40:42,860 --> 00:40:39,020
absolutely I mean there is I'm familiar

844
00:40:46,460 --> 00:40:42,870
with a wonderful guy called Jacques

845
00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:46,470
Vallee if you've seen the movie Close

846
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:48,900
Encounters of the Third Kind you may

847
00:40:55,070 --> 00:40:52,560
know Jacques Vallee a through the guy

848
00:41:00,410 --> 00:40:55,080
who portrayed him on screen who was the

849
00:41:03,620 --> 00:41:00,420
Frenchman Francois Truffaut so he was as

850
00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:03,630
Jack is a real guy he's a real Explorer

851
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:06,950
of the UFO phenomenon but latterly he's

852
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:09,510
become an explorer of something much

853
00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:11,490
more fundamental which is of the whole

854
00:41:15,590 --> 00:41:13,350
consciousness thing that we've just been

855
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:15,600
talking about I I you know I've been

856
00:41:21,140 --> 00:41:18,900
lucky enough to meet Jack in New York

857
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:21,150
and we've spoken a few times and he's

858
00:41:25,730 --> 00:41:22,770
written some incredible books about the

859
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:25,740
UFO phenomenon and the nature of what it

860
00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:27,750
is that we're dealing with here

861
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:30,780
and Jack's view is very much like my own

862
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:35,040
in fact actually almost identical in

863
00:41:47,420 --> 00:41:40,560
that he thinks that we are being exposed

864
00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:47,430
to some form of reality manipulation who

865
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:50,790
is doing the manipulation is of course

866
00:41:59,890 --> 00:41:55,850
that fundamental question I mean is it

867
00:42:05,060 --> 00:41:59,900
some you know extraterrestrial

868
00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:05,070
intelligence that's doing it unknown we

869
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:08,070
just don't know it might it be ourselves

870
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:09,930
might it be future versions of ourselves

871
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:13,560
again we don't know but the the

872
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:15,510
weirdness that accompanies the

873
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:19,970
phenomenon all the the strange

874
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:22,740
there is no conventional aspect this

875
00:42:30,090 --> 00:42:24,250
phenomenon

876
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:30,100
all of that is perhaps symptomatic of

877
00:42:36,990 --> 00:42:34,810
some kind of manipulation of our of the

878
00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:37,000
space that the UFO phenomenon sits

879
00:42:41,610 --> 00:42:40,120
inside so you know I wish I knew your

880
00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:41,620
guess is as good as mine but it's fun

881
00:42:45,210 --> 00:42:43,720
trying to you know find out so when it

882
00:42:46,380 --> 00:42:45,220
comes to what the Tic Tac is it sounds

883
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:46,390
like now you got four possibilities

884
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:47,920
according to you and let me know if I've

885
00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:49,450
missed any but you've got the fact that

886
00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:51,340
it could be real and earthly it could be

887
00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:53,500
real and extraterrestrial or it could be

888
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:55,600
some type of reality manipulation that's

889
00:42:59,010 --> 00:42:57,520
being done earthly or reality

890
00:43:00,350 --> 00:42:59,020
manipulation that's being done by

891
00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:00,360
extraterrestrials

892
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:02,590
yeah Oh something else we haven't even

893
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:04,180
thought of I mean you know those are

894
00:43:08,850 --> 00:43:05,530
just the things that we've been able to

895
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:08,860
funnel down to and discuss because they

896
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:12,640
kind of make sense to us but yeah it

897
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:14,890
could be that and a whole bunch of other

898
00:43:19,350 --> 00:43:17,170
things too okay so now let's get a

899
00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:19,360
little bit more directly into turbo and

900
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:20,500
what he claims

901
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,910
so his background is that he was a US

902
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,560
Air Force intelligence specialist for

903
00:43:30,990 --> 00:43:29,440
about four years in the late 80s said

904
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:31,000
that he worked on a number of radar

905
00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:34,690
systems and electromagnetic tracking etc

906
00:43:38,940 --> 00:43:36,820
etc all things that I don't fully

907
00:43:40,050 --> 00:43:38,950
understand but that was it for years and

908
00:43:41,940 --> 00:43:40,060
with the Air Force

909
00:43:44,310 --> 00:43:41,950
we don't really know all the things that

910
00:43:47,850 --> 00:43:44,320
he's done since his if you look at his

911
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:47,860
LinkedIn it's clear that he done some

912
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:50,290
government contract work etc he lives

913
00:43:55,830 --> 00:43:53,680
out close to the plant 42 area and you

914
00:43:59,370 --> 00:43:55,840
know apparently has a lot of friends and

915
00:44:01,350 --> 00:43:59,380
connections at plant 42 he says that the

916
00:44:02,550 --> 00:44:01,360
radar that picked this up which you're

917
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:02,560
probably familiar with on the USS

918
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:04,750
Princeton is a very sophisticated newer

919
00:44:11,310 --> 00:44:08,560
type of radar it's not the sweeping kind

920
00:44:12,420 --> 00:44:11,320
of radar where you get the do you know

921
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:12,430
what it's called I forget what the name

922
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:15,130
of the radar yeah it's cool Aegis radar

923
00:44:20,010 --> 00:44:17,680
it's a phased array radar system yeah

924
00:44:21,630 --> 00:44:20,020
okay so that's the only type of radar

925
00:44:23,790 --> 00:44:21,640
that can pick these things up and he

926
00:44:26,930 --> 00:44:23,800
said that that type of radar is about to

927
00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:26,940
be implemented on a much broader basis

928
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:29,740
u.s. wide if not worldwide that this

929
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:32,130
technology is becoming a more common

930
00:44:36,450 --> 00:44:34,210
form of radio this can be used and

931
00:44:37,499 --> 00:44:36,460
therefore these tic-tacs that previously

932
00:44:40,349 --> 00:44:37,509
were able to fly

933
00:44:42,479 --> 00:44:40,359
without being detected are now going to

934
00:44:45,629 --> 00:44:42,489
start being detected and hence the

935
00:44:47,339 --> 00:44:45,639
reason why this information now it's

936
00:44:48,689 --> 00:44:47,349
okay to start leaking out this

937
00:44:49,229 --> 00:44:48,699
information because it's going to be

938
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:49,239
known

939
00:44:56,489 --> 00:44:51,609
very soon as a result of the wider use

940
00:44:58,919 --> 00:44:56,499
of that type of radar what do I think

941
00:45:01,979 --> 00:44:58,929
about that yes let's start there and

942
00:45:05,370 --> 00:45:01,989
then I'll give you more okay sure

943
00:45:10,499 --> 00:45:05,380
well yeah

944
00:45:12,209 --> 00:45:10,509
yeah no I mean no in the sense that this

945
00:45:13,999 --> 00:45:12,219
technology has been around for a while I

946
00:45:17,999 --> 00:45:14,009
mean it's been around for a long time

947
00:45:19,859 --> 00:45:18,009
that the radar you mate yeah yeah it's

948
00:45:22,949 --> 00:45:19,869
been around for ages I mean the very

949
00:45:25,049 --> 00:45:22,959
first job I ever did when I was at

950
00:45:28,469 --> 00:45:25,059
Jaynes was I was flown up to Greenland

951
00:45:30,149 --> 00:45:28,479
and I saw a bow mystic a ballistic

952
00:45:32,159 --> 00:45:30,159
missile early warning station up in

953
00:45:34,289 --> 00:45:32,169
Greenland at a base called tule which

954
00:45:37,129 --> 00:45:34,299
uses the exact same technology phased

955
00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:37,139
array radar technology and this was in

956
00:45:43,769 --> 00:45:40,569
1987 so it's been around for a very long

957
00:45:46,829 --> 00:45:43,779
time it might be being miniaturized and

958
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:46,839
more widely deployed the fa teams that

959
00:45:52,349 --> 00:45:50,319
were vectored to the ufos by the aegis

960
00:45:58,439 --> 00:45:52,359
radar they also use a form of phased

961
00:46:00,059 --> 00:45:58,449
array radar technology so you know as

962
00:46:00,899 --> 00:46:00,069
with all things they get smaller and

963
00:46:02,579 --> 00:46:00,909
they get better and they get more

964
00:46:06,509 --> 00:46:02,589
powerful but the tech basic technology

965
00:46:09,269 --> 00:46:06,519
has been around for ages and and and

966
00:46:12,629 --> 00:46:09,279
what we hear out of the encounter anyway

967
00:46:14,849 --> 00:46:12,639
is that sometimes the way the aircraft

968
00:46:20,159 --> 00:46:14,859
themselves were not able to pick up or

969
00:46:21,569 --> 00:46:20,169
track the the UFO on their radar they

970
00:46:23,339 --> 00:46:21,579
tracked it on something called their

971
00:46:25,439 --> 00:46:23,349
forward-looking infra-red which was

972
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:25,449
where we get those bits of imagery that

973
00:46:29,429 --> 00:46:28,689
we see is like a infrared movie camera

974
00:46:31,379 --> 00:46:29,439
on the aircraft

975
00:46:35,099 --> 00:46:31,389
those were able to track the aircraft

976
00:46:38,269 --> 00:46:35,109
work whereas the radar was not so again

977
00:46:40,919 --> 00:46:38,279
it's only through sensor fusion you get

978
00:46:42,089 --> 00:46:40,929
radar data from the fleet you get radar

979
00:46:47,759 --> 00:46:42,099
data from the aircraft

980
00:46:50,609 --> 00:46:47,769
you get eyeball visual eyes on from the

981
00:46:51,359 --> 00:46:50,619
pilots you know that's called sensor

982
00:46:53,789 --> 00:46:51,369
fusion

983
00:46:55,559 --> 00:46:53,799
you can begin to trust that data you

984
00:46:57,989 --> 00:46:55,569
know that you know if you were trusting

985
00:47:01,200 --> 00:46:57,999
any one source of data for this citing

986
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:01,210
well then you shouldn't so you know my

987
00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:03,730
reaction is trust all the data don't

988
00:47:06,809 --> 00:47:06,190
trust one single single piece of it

989
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:06,819
mm-hmm

990
00:47:12,809 --> 00:47:09,609
so then he goes on to state that this is

991
00:47:14,489 --> 00:47:12,819
US Airforce technology that they knew

992
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:14,499
that the Nimitz was conducting their

993
00:47:18,569 --> 00:47:16,180
training exercises at the time and that

994
00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:18,579
they would therefore pick up these out

995
00:47:23,819 --> 00:47:21,369
there and they were basically testing

996
00:47:25,980 --> 00:47:23,829
them to see how the Navy would respond

997
00:47:29,099 --> 00:47:25,990
to them they knew that the Navy when

998
00:47:31,710 --> 00:47:29,109
they fly there their test flights that

999
00:47:33,749 --> 00:47:31,720
they're unarmed and so there's no fear

1000
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:33,759
that they're gonna attempt to shoot

1001
00:47:37,980 --> 00:47:35,650
these things down and furthermore Navy

1002
00:47:40,109 --> 00:47:37,990
commanders were aware of this airforce

1003
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:40,119
exercise and so they were confident

1004
00:47:43,859 --> 00:47:41,920
sending these guys up there unarmed

1005
00:47:45,269 --> 00:47:43,869
because that is a little did strike me

1006
00:47:46,980 --> 00:47:45,279
as a little bit odd that wow you're

1007
00:47:48,210 --> 00:47:46,990
seeing these unidentified objects out

1008
00:47:49,710 --> 00:47:48,220
there and you're just gonna send planes

1009
00:47:51,359 --> 00:47:49,720
with no weapons on them at all

1010
00:47:53,339 --> 00:47:51,369
to just go check them out that would

1011
00:47:56,220 --> 00:47:53,349
seem to me to be arguably a dangerous

1012
00:47:58,499 --> 00:47:56,230
mission but if high-level Navy command

1013
00:47:59,549 --> 00:47:58,509
knew what was going on that's why they

1014
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:59,559
would feel comfortable sending these

1015
00:48:06,809 --> 00:48:01,119
pilots out there to check them out with

1016
00:48:11,370 --> 00:48:06,819
without manned aircraft well listen I

1017
00:48:14,489 --> 00:48:11,380
mean I don't know again whether I mean

1018
00:48:17,489 --> 00:48:14,499
it's always possible that might be true

1019
00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:17,499
that scenario but based on my experience

1020
00:48:25,529 --> 00:48:22,630
I consider it highly unlikely it is it's

1021
00:48:29,089 --> 00:48:25,539
almost ludicrous I think to presume that

1022
00:48:33,150 --> 00:48:29,099
you would send up your own secret stuff

1023
00:48:36,779 --> 00:48:33,160
against another service in the employ of

1024
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:36,789
your own country that would be a highly

1025
00:48:42,059 --> 00:48:39,910
risky maneuver I don't know because I

1026
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:42,069
just don't have the data as to whether

1027
00:48:47,099 --> 00:48:44,319
those aircraft the the Navy f-18s were

1028
00:48:48,749 --> 00:48:47,109
armed or unarmed but I mean you would

1029
00:48:51,630 --> 00:48:48,759
have no guarantee that they weren't

1030
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:51,640
armed so while fragran did say one of it

1031
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:54,249
that the squadron commander he did say

1032
00:48:56,819 --> 00:48:55,569
that they were unarmed and he said that

1033
00:48:58,289 --> 00:48:56,829
they're always unarmed when we're doing

1034
00:49:01,920 --> 00:48:58,299
exercises because you don't want any

1035
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:01,930
accidents well and by the way sorry to

1036
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:04,160
interrupt but and he in

1037
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:06,049
Kerber saying that no high-level Navy

1038
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:08,569
command was aware of it it's just that

1039
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:10,609
the pilots themselves and anybody below

1040
00:49:15,819 --> 00:49:12,559
a certain level was not aware of this

1041
00:49:17,770 --> 00:49:15,829
exercise that was going on well like I

1042
00:49:20,740 --> 00:49:17,780
say anything is possible but it would be

1043
00:49:23,950 --> 00:49:20,750
a really really strange way of doing

1044
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:23,960
things you don't test top secret stuff

1045
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:27,410
in a random way like that in my

1046
00:49:33,099 --> 00:49:29,359
experience or in my experience of having

1047
00:49:36,490 --> 00:49:33,109
spoken to people over three decades of

1048
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:36,500
covering this stuff but again I'm not

1049
00:49:40,839 --> 00:49:38,450
saying it's impossible but it just would

1050
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:40,849
be highly highly irregular highly

1051
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:45,609
unusual and personally nothing against

1052
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:48,710
mr. turbo but personally I don't buy it

1053
00:49:55,059 --> 00:49:51,650
okay so he says that they were built at

1054
00:49:58,359 --> 00:49:55,069
plant 42 by a couple different

1055
00:49:59,859 --> 00:49:58,369
contractors you know the obvious names

1056
00:50:01,450 --> 00:49:59,869
he didn't want to reveal who they were

1057
00:50:03,279 --> 00:50:01,460
other than talking about the list of

1058
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:03,289
obvious names people like Lockheed and

1059
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:06,559
Raytheon etc etc so that part would make

1060
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:07,609
sense that they would be one of those

1061
00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:08,720
type of companies that would have

1062
00:50:12,819 --> 00:50:11,240
developed it right and then there's the

1063
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:12,829
the one that they referred to as gimbal

1064
00:50:17,140 --> 00:50:13,730
off the East Coast

1065
00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:17,150
he claims that that one was built by a

1066
00:50:20,740 --> 00:50:18,470
different contractor so you actually

1067
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:20,750
have at least two contractors that have

1068
00:50:26,170 --> 00:50:23,680
been building these things at plant 42

1069
00:50:27,819 --> 00:50:26,180
he says that it emanated essentially

1070
00:50:31,059 --> 00:50:27,829
from the late 80s from the Star Wars

1071
00:50:32,349 --> 00:50:31,069
program etc which does kind of tie in a

1072
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:32,359
bit with what you're saying as far as

1073
00:50:35,740 --> 00:50:33,680
the amount of money being spent on black

1074
00:50:39,579 --> 00:50:35,750
projects going back to the Reagan

1075
00:50:41,740 --> 00:50:39,589
administration and originally flew you

1076
00:50:45,339 --> 00:50:41,750
know original flights in the late 90s of

1077
00:50:47,140 --> 00:50:45,349
course we know that the Nimitz was 2004

1078
00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:47,150
so these things have been around for

1079
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:50,569
about 20 years which is again why I

1080
00:50:53,380 --> 00:50:52,130
asked you the question about the ability

1081
00:50:54,910 --> 00:50:53,390
to keep secrets because it's just

1082
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:54,920
astounding to me that something could be

1083
00:51:00,490 --> 00:50:57,760
kept secret theoretically for 20 years

1084
00:51:02,230 --> 00:51:00,500
but let me let me pause there you you

1085
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:02,240
you you said that yeah these other

1086
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:03,440
projects were kept secret for an

1087
00:51:07,690 --> 00:51:05,839
extended period of time if this were

1088
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:07,700
real and he's right that this has been

1089
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:10,970
around for 20 years is it possible that

1090
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:12,470
it could have been kept this secret for

1091
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:15,680
20 years oh yeah I mean like I say

1092
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:17,850
secrets keep I mean they can keep

1093
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:21,690
it's not that bit that I have an issue

1094
00:51:26,090 --> 00:51:24,690
with I mean secrets can be kept but as

1095
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:26,100
we were saying at the beginning of this

1096
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:30,690
interview it's as an individual I would

1097
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:34,160
be loath to trust any one data source

1098
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:39,450
about you know or or someone who was

1099
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,850
telling me something if that came from

1100
00:51:47,530 --> 00:51:44,160
one source I would be really really

1101
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,540
loath which is why we're talking to you

1102
00:51:52,930 --> 00:51:49,440
sure yeah absolutely

1103
00:51:58,820 --> 00:51:52,940
I mean you know let me lovely yeah

1104
00:52:01,700 --> 00:51:58,830
loving this but but if you know if the

1105
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:01,710
technology had been developed in plant

1106
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:07,680
42 or anywhere else which I've seen no

1107
00:52:13,340 --> 00:52:10,050
evidence for by the way and you know I

1108
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:13,350
think many colleagues who report these

1109
00:52:17,450 --> 00:52:16,170
things in much greater depth than I do I

1110
00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:17,460
mean I've been out of the active

1111
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:20,550
reporting game with Jane's Defence

1112
00:52:26,180 --> 00:52:23,910
weekly for you know 15 years or so 12 or

1113
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:26,190
15 years but you know I still keep in

1114
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:29,280
touch with all my colleagues there would

1115
00:52:33,980 --> 00:52:31,050
have been sniffs and rumours about this

1116
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:33,990
stuff you know people would have said a

1117
00:52:43,220 --> 00:52:37,110
bit more than what is being said at the

1118
00:52:45,380 --> 00:52:43,230
moment and I just it just bel with with

1119
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:45,390
with how I understand this business

1120
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:49,520
works that these remarkable

1121
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:52,650
physics-defying bits of technology that

1122
00:52:59,180 --> 00:52:55,050
we've seen in those films could have

1123
00:53:04,040 --> 00:52:59,190
been developed by Lockheed or Northrop

1124
00:53:06,530 --> 00:53:04,050
or you know anyone else that technology

1125
00:53:09,410 --> 00:53:06,540
defies belief and what defies even more

1126
00:53:10,430 --> 00:53:09,420
belief for me is had they been developed

1127
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:10,440
by any of them

1128
00:53:19,130 --> 00:53:13,650
that you'd go out and test them in the

1129
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:19,140
way that you know that is being said

1130
00:53:24,980 --> 00:53:21,660
that they are being tested against the

1131
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:24,990
US Navy in that exercise format it just

1132
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:30,450
wouldn't make much sense to me okay

1133
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:31,650
let's go to the next thing that

1134
00:53:38,569 --> 00:53:35,609
turbo says and that is that he's

1135
00:53:40,609 --> 00:53:38,579
actually flown well sorry I shouldn't

1136
00:53:41,930 --> 00:53:40,619
say that he says that he was very

1137
00:53:45,859 --> 00:53:41,940
careful about how he said it

1138
00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:45,869
but he he hinted that he has been in one

1139
00:53:53,089 --> 00:53:51,359
and he was able to show me what are you

1140
00:53:56,809 --> 00:53:53,099
rolling your is that an eye roll is that

1141
00:54:02,809 --> 00:53:56,819
what I'm seeing I was just scratching my

1142
00:54:04,969 --> 00:54:02,819
head that particular before but yet go

1143
00:54:09,309 --> 00:54:04,979
on this is very interesting so he was

1144
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:09,319
able to show me his phone from November

1145
00:54:16,849 --> 00:54:15,210
18th of 2017 which shows his Google Maps

1146
00:54:18,229 --> 00:54:16,859
and so forth and I don't know if you've

1147
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:18,239
ever tracked that on your phone I had

1148
00:54:21,319 --> 00:54:20,249
never done it before but if you want to

1149
00:54:22,849 --> 00:54:21,329
be tracked maybe it doesn't

1150
00:54:23,989 --> 00:54:22,859
automatically maybe got turning on or

1151
00:54:27,650 --> 00:54:23,999
off or whatever but it shows you where

1152
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:27,660
you went that day and I I can confirm to

1153
00:54:33,650 --> 00:54:30,450
you based on reviewing that that it

1154
00:54:35,329 --> 00:54:33,660
indicates that at least his phone and

1155
00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:35,339
that's where he was kind of giving me

1156
00:54:42,829 --> 00:54:38,940
the wink wink that it was his phone flew

1157
00:54:44,959 --> 00:54:42,839
there as opposed to actually him but he

1158
00:54:48,789 --> 00:54:44,969
certainly strongly hinted that he was

1159
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:48,799
with his phone for this flight went from

1160
00:54:52,329 --> 00:54:50,729
essentially Palmdale although

1161
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:52,339
technically it was Rancho Cucamonga

1162
00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:55,710
which is close to Palmdale to the east

1163
00:55:01,640 --> 00:54:58,799
coast you could imagine where on the

1164
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:01,650
East Coast but he didn't want to exactly

1165
00:55:05,180 --> 00:55:03,210
disclose that but you could imagine

1166
00:55:07,999 --> 00:55:05,190
where on the East Coast he might fly to

1167
00:55:10,670 --> 00:55:08,009
if it was the Navy flying him there or

1168
00:55:13,969 --> 00:55:10,680
the airforce and according to his phone

1169
00:55:16,190 --> 00:55:13,979
the trip took an hour and 24 minutes so

1170
00:55:17,809 --> 00:55:16,200
we all know if you look at the tic-tac

1171
00:55:19,459 --> 00:55:17,819
video that it could have gotten there a

1172
00:55:22,459 --> 00:55:19,469
hell of a lot faster than that but he

1173
00:55:25,370 --> 00:55:22,469
says based on g-force a human could not

1174
00:55:27,529 --> 00:55:25,380
stand the g-force that would be exerted

1175
00:55:30,349 --> 00:55:27,539
by something traveling the speed that

1176
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:30,359
you see in the video so this thing would

1177
00:55:36,650 --> 00:55:33,930
have flown at one G such that it would

1178
00:55:38,359 --> 00:55:36,660
still go really really fast but you

1179
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:38,369
wouldn't the acceleration would be such

1180
00:55:42,349 --> 00:55:40,529
that it would be okay on a human and

1181
00:55:44,839 --> 00:55:42,359
that apparently if you were to do the

1182
00:55:46,099 --> 00:55:44,849
calculation of a 1g calculator

1183
00:55:47,450 --> 00:55:46,109
is approximately how long it would take

1184
00:55:50,180 --> 00:55:47,460
you to get to the east coast an hour and

1185
00:55:52,999 --> 00:55:50,190
24 minutes now obviously you could say

1186
00:55:56,509 --> 00:55:53,009
oh gee Jim he manipulated his Google map

1187
00:55:59,930 --> 00:55:56,519
to trick you clearly a possibility but

1188
00:56:01,969 --> 00:55:59,940
if he let's assume he did not how did he

1189
00:56:04,910 --> 00:56:01,979
get from the west coast to the east

1190
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:04,920
coast in an hour and 24 minutes are

1191
00:56:09,799 --> 00:56:08,160
there other types of craft that go that

1192
00:56:11,420 --> 00:56:09,809
fast we've had people speculate in

1193
00:56:12,890 --> 00:56:11,430
response to our YouTube video and so on

1194
00:56:14,569 --> 00:56:12,900
as far as how he could have gotten there

1195
00:56:15,979 --> 00:56:14,579
in our 24 minutes they even mentioned

1196
00:56:17,269 --> 00:56:15,989
some other type of crafted but somebody

1197
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:17,279
pointed out that know that craft has

1198
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:18,960
been retired but I'm not sure there

1199
00:56:25,370 --> 00:56:23,430
exists any craft in the US military you

1200
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:25,380
tell me if you know different that could

1201
00:56:32,029 --> 00:56:26,729
get from the west coast to the East

1202
00:56:35,749 --> 00:56:32,039
Coast in an hour and 24 minutes okay but

1203
00:56:39,410 --> 00:56:35,759
I mean the question is taking at face

1204
00:56:42,319 --> 00:56:39,420
value that there is a craft that can go

1205
00:56:46,279 --> 00:56:42,329
from these to the west in in that time

1206
00:56:48,650 --> 00:56:46,289
span you know so I mean look I don't

1207
00:56:51,019 --> 00:56:48,660
want I don't want to cast aspersions on

1208
00:56:55,309 --> 00:56:51,029
any one individual but I will tell you a

1209
00:56:58,249 --> 00:56:55,319
story about about Air Force intelligence

1210
00:56:59,930 --> 00:56:58,259
and what it is capable of doing in fact

1211
00:57:01,489 --> 00:56:59,940
any Intelligence Agency and what it's

1212
00:57:03,559 --> 00:57:01,499
capable of doing I wouldn't even point

1213
00:57:06,829 --> 00:57:03,569
the finger at the Air Force but back in

1214
00:57:07,370 --> 00:57:06,839
the 1980s there was a case of a guy

1215
00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:07,380
called

1216
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:09,960
Paul bennewitz who he was an ordinary

1217
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:12,809
guy who was kind of interested in home

1218
00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:15,119
electronics who sat on the edge of a

1219
00:57:18,739 --> 00:57:17,400
very secretive Air Force Base out in New

1220
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:18,749
Mexico which I've been to called

1221
00:57:23,059 --> 00:57:21,359
Kirtland Air Force Base Kirtland Air

1222
00:57:24,739 --> 00:57:23,069
Force Base tests all kinds of secret

1223
00:57:27,469 --> 00:57:24,749
things and mr. Benowitz

1224
00:57:29,719 --> 00:57:27,479
had the misfortune to pick up on his

1225
00:57:31,039 --> 00:57:29,729
sort of weird electronic bits of kit

1226
00:57:35,170 --> 00:57:31,049
that he was assembling in his living

1227
00:57:38,479 --> 00:57:35,180
room some of the emissions that work

1228
00:57:40,249 --> 00:57:38,489
coming out of the base so what Air Force

1229
00:57:41,859 --> 00:57:40,259
intelligence decides to do is make him

1230
00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:41,869
believe that he was listening to

1231
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:45,089
extraterrestrial communications that

1232
00:57:49,309 --> 00:57:47,249
going on from inside the base and then

1233
00:57:51,319 --> 00:57:49,319
lights were seen and who knows maybe

1234
00:57:52,759 --> 00:57:51,329
they shine lights on the base to make

1235
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:52,769
him think that he was seeing

1236
00:57:57,890 --> 00:57:55,410
extraterrestrials and so this poor guy

1237
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:57,900
was driven mad by all of this stuff

1238
00:58:01,640 --> 00:57:58,740
because the store

1239
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:01,650
became more and more embellished so what

1240
00:58:06,650 --> 00:58:03,990
this should tell us is that there are

1241
00:58:08,810 --> 00:58:06,660
agencies which are very adept at

1242
00:58:11,540 --> 00:58:08,820
manipulating information and making us

1243
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:11,550
believe things that they want they want

1244
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:16,770
us to believe so when you get a genuine

1245
00:58:21,020 --> 00:58:19,110
or an apparently genuine phenomenon like

1246
00:58:24,020 --> 00:58:21,030
the tic-tac thing which is really

1247
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:24,030
creating waves and as I've said at the

1248
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:26,910
beginning of this you know there appears

1249
00:58:31,070 --> 00:58:29,010
to be a truth at the heart of it Jim

1250
00:58:33,140 --> 00:58:31,080
whatever that truth is there is you know

1251
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:33,150
there something happened in that minute

1252
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:36,510
carry a group in 2004 but when you get

1253
00:58:43,010 --> 00:58:39,510
things like that you get a whole circus

1254
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,020
now comes around it and lots of people

1255
00:58:53,830 --> 00:58:45,119
start jumping in and all sorts of weird

1256
00:58:59,950 --> 00:58:56,690
active part of the government

1257
00:59:03,200 --> 00:58:59,960
intelligence machineries toolkit so

1258
00:59:05,450 --> 00:59:03,210
personally speaking like I say I like to

1259
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:05,460
take with a pinch of salt everything

1260
00:59:12,770 --> 00:59:08,730
that I hear and I take no one data point

1261
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:12,780
as truth i data fuse just like all of

1262
00:59:19,490 --> 00:59:15,330
those bits of kit in the Nimitz carrier

1263
00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:19,500
group when it was tracking that UFO when

1264
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:22,200
I pull those bits of data in I assemble

1265
00:59:26,990 --> 00:59:25,050
my own picture of my own story but what

1266
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:27,000
I'm starting to hear around the tic-tac

1267
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:29,130
story you know a lot of it just lacks

1268
00:59:33,620 --> 00:59:30,960
credibility and I'm afraid I don't even

1269
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:33,630
go there yeah well you know for me and

1270
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:35,850
not being experienced in this area it

1271
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:37,890
was really important to me to hear the

1272
00:59:42,590 --> 00:59:41,040
Navy confirm that this video is real and

1273
00:59:43,940 --> 00:59:42,600
that the pilots encountered this and

1274
00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:43,950
then to hear the pilots explain it the

1275
00:59:46,910 --> 00:59:45,480
same way that you agree that yeah it

1276
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:46,920
appears that there was something that

1277
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:49,770
they saw and as far as potential

1278
00:59:55,609 --> 00:59:52,130
explanations for what they saw

1279
00:59:58,280 --> 00:59:55,619
it seemed to me that it being an earthly

1280
01:00:00,609 --> 00:59:58,290
aircraft was the most likely explanation

1281
01:00:02,630 --> 01:00:00,619
because extraterrestrial is

1282
01:00:04,910 --> 01:00:02,640
extraterrestrial and I hadn't given

1283
01:00:09,950 --> 01:00:04,920
thought yet to your theory about altered

1284
01:00:11,810 --> 01:00:09,960
realities but certainly if you put it it

1285
01:00:12,590 --> 01:00:11,820
certainly is one of the potential

1286
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:12,600
explanation

1287
01:00:18,110 --> 01:00:15,510
and if you applied a percentage to what

1288
01:00:19,870 --> 01:00:18,120
this thing what the answer you know

1289
01:00:24,110 --> 01:00:19,880
eventually we're gonna learn what it was

1290
01:00:25,700 --> 01:00:24,120
and I mean it might be in one year might

1291
01:00:27,890 --> 01:00:25,710
be in a thousand years but at some point

1292
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:27,900
presumably we're gonna learn what this

1293
01:00:32,510 --> 01:00:30,810
was and that certainly is a potential

1294
01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:32,520
that it is earthly I think you would at

1295
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:34,710
least agree with that that yeah there's

1296
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:37,920
definitely it it would be shocking in an

1297
01:00:44,210 --> 01:00:40,770
unbelievable breakthrough in in in

1298
01:00:47,810 --> 01:00:44,220
science but it's possible that it's

1299
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:47,820
earthly in a real craft oh well listen I

1300
01:00:54,010 --> 01:00:49,770
mean of course it's possible that it's

1301
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:54,020
earthly as as I said I I spent 10 years

1302
01:00:58,160 --> 01:00:56,160
investigating that whole part of the

1303
01:00:59,810 --> 01:00:58,170
phenomenon and I wrote it up in the hunt

1304
01:01:02,930 --> 01:00:59,820
for zero point my book that came out in

1305
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:02,940
2001 so yeah of course it was possible

1306
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:04,410
that was my starting premise I thought

1307
01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:07,170
it had to be earthly but what I found

1308
01:01:13,220 --> 01:01:10,260
out at the end of that journey was that

1309
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:13,230
it would be very foolish of us to

1310
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:16,470
ascribe a single point solution to this

1311
01:01:21,410 --> 01:01:18,810
very complex multifarious phenomenon

1312
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:21,420
which is the UFO phenomenon it is not

1313
01:01:26,770 --> 01:01:24,090
that simple I know because I spent all

1314
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:26,780
that time looking at it investigating it

1315
01:01:32,180 --> 01:01:30,210
and then writing about it and in the

1316
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:32,190
year since I've sort of cast a weather

1317
01:01:36,110 --> 01:01:34,290
eye on it and I keep in touch with all

1318
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:36,120
of those sources who helped me out in

1319
01:01:40,310 --> 01:01:38,640
that book but wouldn't you agree yes

1320
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:40,320
sorry but wouldn't you agree though the

1321
01:01:45,530 --> 01:01:42,090
USS Nimitz is a little bit different

1322
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:45,540
than most other so-called UFO sightings

1323
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:49,530
I mean this one has a lot more behind it

1324
01:01:57,530 --> 01:01:52,730
than your typical sighting including

1325
01:02:00,200 --> 01:01:57,540
pretty decent video multiple pilots US

1326
01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:00,210
Navy confirming that it was real I mean

1327
01:02:06,350 --> 01:02:04,200
we've never had that before well that's

1328
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:06,360
another question you you you asked me

1329
01:02:13,460 --> 01:02:08,610
whether the technology at the heart of

1330
01:02:16,700 --> 01:02:13,470
the sighting was terrestrial now it

1331
01:02:19,100 --> 01:02:16,710
might be but that question the second

1332
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:19,110
one about you know the the real bits of

1333
01:02:23,060 --> 01:02:20,610
kit that make up the Nimitz carrier

1334
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:23,070
group yeah absolutely that's what

1335
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,960
distinguishes the Nimitz carrier

1336
01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:26,400
sighting the Tic Tac

1337
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:30,329
sighting is that we do have testimony

1338
01:02:35,930 --> 01:02:32,880
from multiple witnesses we've got data

1339
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:35,940
apparently from multiple sensors and all

1340
01:02:41,839 --> 01:02:39,690
fused together and they saw something we

1341
01:02:44,180 --> 01:02:41,849
even have the Navy and I think this is

1342
01:02:48,589 --> 01:02:44,190
the real distinguishing feature of this

1343
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,599
particular sighting is that the Navy has

1344
01:02:54,829 --> 01:02:51,119
come forward to say that it was real

1345
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:54,839
that is not happy before that really

1346
01:02:59,210 --> 01:02:57,450
pulls this one out from all the other

1347
01:03:02,299 --> 01:02:59,220
and there have been multiple sightings

1348
01:03:03,950 --> 01:03:02,309
by military pilots before and the

1349
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:03,960
difference is is that no one's actually

1350
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:06,480
stood up in the Air Force or the Navy or

1351
01:03:10,579 --> 01:03:09,210
the army or anywhere else to say yep it

1352
01:03:13,819 --> 01:03:10,589
really happened well in this case they

1353
01:03:16,490 --> 01:03:13,829
did and that's what distinguishes it but

1354
01:03:19,970 --> 01:03:16,500
you know that you your first question to

1355
01:03:23,269 --> 01:03:19,980
me was was the bit of kick you know the

1356
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:23,279
tick-tack the the things that the

1357
01:03:28,730 --> 01:03:26,220
objects that were filmed was that a real

1358
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:28,740
terrestrial bit of you know earthbound

1359
01:03:36,170 --> 01:03:32,130
technology well it might have been but

1360
01:03:38,180 --> 01:03:36,180
it's unlikely in my view given what the

1361
01:03:41,930 --> 01:03:38,190
pilot said that it could do which just

1362
01:03:44,180 --> 01:03:41,940
defies our rational explanation of

1363
01:03:45,740 --> 01:03:44,190
physics but betters my understanding

1364
01:03:48,410 --> 01:03:45,750
that it doesn't necessarily defy the

1365
01:03:50,450 --> 01:03:48,420
laws of physics that it exploits the

1366
01:03:53,630 --> 01:03:50,460
laws of physics that it's acknowledged

1367
01:03:55,700 --> 01:03:53,640
that anti-gravity or whatever you want

1368
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:55,710
to call it is a possibility under the

1369
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:57,839
laws of physics it was just a real trick

1370
01:04:05,299 --> 01:03:59,599
to figure out how to do it and is that

1371
01:04:09,529 --> 01:04:05,309
am I saying that properly yeah in the

1372
01:04:11,839 --> 01:04:09,539
sense that of course you know if gravity

1373
01:04:13,700 --> 01:04:11,849
can be manipulated and there is no

1374
01:04:16,940 --> 01:04:13,710
evidence yet that it can be but if it

1375
01:04:19,549 --> 01:04:16,950
can be then that is how a craft like tic

1376
01:04:21,319 --> 01:04:19,559
tac would behave I mean we would expect

1377
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:21,329
to see it maneuver like that if you can

1378
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:26,010
manipulate the gravitational mass of a

1379
01:04:32,180 --> 01:04:28,319
other of an object if you can manipulate

1380
01:04:33,589 --> 01:04:32,190
the inertia of an object sure I mean it

1381
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:33,599
would behave like that and there's a lot

1382
01:04:36,799 --> 01:04:35,250
of scientists that believe that that

1383
01:04:38,510 --> 01:04:36,809
that is possible to manipulate gravity

1384
01:04:40,130 --> 01:04:38,520
what whether it's been discovered or not

1385
01:04:42,290 --> 01:04:40,140
what that

1386
01:04:45,020 --> 01:04:42,300
yeah that is possible yeah of course

1387
01:04:47,930 --> 01:04:45,030
it's possible I mean we have to believe

1388
01:04:53,900 --> 01:04:47,940
that anything in science is possible

1389
01:04:55,850 --> 01:04:53,910
it's just that yeah it according to you

1390
01:04:58,100 --> 01:04:55,860
know according to the manifest it hasn't

1391
01:04:59,630 --> 01:04:58,110
been discovered yet okay no we got

1392
01:05:01,490 --> 01:04:59,640
limited time so let me just run to

1393
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:01,500
leather turbo notes by you if I could

1394
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:03,930
and then I'll I'll let you go so just to

1395
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:05,910
read for you quickly what he says this

1396
01:05:10,790 --> 01:05:08,160
was actually in a post that he responded

1397
01:05:14,050 --> 01:05:10,800
to somebody on our YouTube he says this

1398
01:05:16,730 --> 01:05:14,060
was a United States Air Force ARL

1399
01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:16,740
operation in conjunction with DARPA

1400
01:05:21,740 --> 01:05:20,220
and NRL to test the craft commonly

1401
01:05:23,780 --> 01:05:21,750
referred to as tick tack your tick that

1402
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:23,790
group were made at plant 42 and trucked

1403
01:05:28,730 --> 01:05:26,010
to Vandenberg and 53-foot trucks the

1404
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,740
tick tack is about 46 feet long so they

1405
01:05:33,170 --> 01:05:30,480
can be trucked from Vandenberg they were

1406
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:33,180
flown low and slow via our PA pilots out

1407
01:05:39,230 --> 01:05:36,810
past AI ADIZ I hope you know these

1408
01:05:41,390 --> 01:05:39,240
acronyms cuz I don't and dipped in just

1409
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:41,400
below San Clemente Island below normal

1410
01:05:46,670 --> 01:05:44,610
radar from their spy 1b should have

1411
01:05:49,460 --> 01:05:46,680
acquired their tracks after that it was

1412
01:05:50,930 --> 01:05:49,470
all US Air Force testing how Nimitz CIC

1413
01:05:52,610 --> 01:05:50,940
would respond in an effort to gain

1414
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:52,620
knowledge on how our own forces would

1415
01:05:56,420 --> 01:05:54,930
react to them the rest you know the

1416
01:05:58,580 --> 01:05:56,430
objects are certainly terrestrial and

1417
01:06:00,830 --> 01:05:58,590
are ours and obviously they have

1418
01:06:02,900 --> 01:06:00,840
advanced propulsion developed by a few

1419
01:06:08,650 --> 01:06:02,910
universities and subsequently that

1420
01:06:13,580 --> 01:06:10,760
great well if they're ours

1421
01:06:15,530 --> 01:06:13,590
I can sleep easy in my bed I am really

1422
01:06:17,690 --> 01:06:15,540
really happy that's fantastic news I'm

1423
01:06:21,290 --> 01:06:17,700
so pleased well I mean on a serious note

1424
01:06:24,890 --> 01:06:21,300
I would say if that is what he has been

1425
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:24,900
told pro do you see evidence because I'd

1426
01:06:29,180 --> 01:06:27,090
love I would truly love to see it I'd

1427
01:06:32,450 --> 01:06:29,190
love to see I've been covering aerospace

1428
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:32,460
all my professional life I'm fascinated

1429
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:35,730
by aerospace I wrote the book zero point

1430
01:06:40,100 --> 01:06:37,050
because I wanted to believe that we

1431
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:40,110
could have develops anti-gravity

1432
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:44,130
technology but if he's found proof that

1433
01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:47,010
we have great publish it I'd love to see

1434
01:06:52,130 --> 01:06:50,520
it truly I mean it so that the the one

1435
01:06:53,900 --> 01:06:52,140
other person who has apparently seen

1436
01:06:56,210 --> 01:06:53,910
this is Kim jong-un

1437
01:06:59,660 --> 01:06:56,220
so I'm gonna give you the the last piece

1438
01:07:03,830 --> 01:06:59,670
of turbo revelations which which was

1439
01:07:08,210 --> 01:07:03,840
that Trump was briefed on this

1440
01:07:09,410 --> 01:07:08,220
technology soon before turbo learned

1441
01:07:13,970 --> 01:07:09,420
about it basically and we're talking

1442
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:13,980
about November of 17 and Trump being

1443
01:07:18,380 --> 01:07:16,770
Trump learns about it and says well heck

1444
01:07:20,750 --> 01:07:18,390
we can't just let this technology sit

1445
01:07:23,180 --> 01:07:20,760
around we got to put this to good use

1446
01:07:25,190 --> 01:07:23,190
I'm in the middle of this hot and heavy

1447
01:07:26,930 --> 01:07:25,200
negotiation over nuclear weapons with

1448
01:07:28,610 --> 01:07:26,940
Kim jong-un trying to get him to back

1449
01:07:30,050 --> 01:07:28,620
down a nuclear weapons and let him know

1450
01:07:32,090 --> 01:07:30,060
that you know the u.s. is a force to be

1451
01:07:36,860 --> 01:07:32,100
reckoned with etc I'd like to show this

1452
01:07:41,570 --> 01:07:36,870
off to to him and ordered one flown to

1453
01:07:44,690 --> 01:07:41,580
North Korea to somehow have it displayed

1454
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:44,700
to Kim jong-un that that part how they

1455
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:46,530
would display it to him etc I don't know

1456
01:07:53,870 --> 01:07:49,760
but that's part of the term er

1457
01:07:58,840 --> 01:07:53,880
revelations did he say whether it was

1458
01:08:03,050 --> 01:07:58,850
flown by Elvis come on now come on now

1459
01:08:06,260 --> 01:08:03,060
so go there well I mean really seriously

1460
01:08:10,300 --> 01:08:06,270
I mean we kind of been over this Jim you

1461
01:08:17,630 --> 01:08:14,570
the problem is is is you know once

1462
01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:17,640
somebody goes down a road of saying that

1463
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:20,510
you know this stuff is this or that

1464
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:23,520
yeah they then you know for it to be

1465
01:08:31,220 --> 01:08:25,130
believable they have to produce evidence

1466
01:08:35,420 --> 01:08:31,230
so there is no way that anyone would

1467
01:08:38,660 --> 01:08:35,430
ever want to show an adversary real

1468
01:08:41,660 --> 01:08:38,670
potential active or not okay hold on a

1469
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:41,670
second do I need to remind you who I

1470
01:08:52,220 --> 01:08:47,250
said ordered it Donald Trump very good I

1471
01:08:54,440 --> 01:08:52,230
meet my work here is done you you you

1472
01:08:56,270 --> 01:08:54,450
you you you get my point if anybody's

1473
01:09:01,790 --> 01:08:56,280
gonna do something unconventional it's

1474
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,800
it's this president well yeah I'm sorry

1475
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:03,120
I don't even know where to go with that

1476
01:09:08,729 --> 01:09:07,210
yeah there we go anyway I wa

1477
01:09:10,140 --> 01:09:08,739
I wanted to throw it all at you just so

1478
01:09:12,420 --> 01:09:10,150
you knew the full extent of what it is I

1479
01:09:14,459 --> 01:09:12,430
mean look obviously well let's see for

1480
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:14,469
that thank you yeah I mean obviously the

1481
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:16,480
last two bits about turbo having flown

1482
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:19,839
in one and the Trump story makes you

1483
01:09:25,650 --> 01:09:21,759
know makes his story even more difficult

1484
01:09:29,999 --> 01:09:25,660
to believe so you know why he would toss

1485
01:09:31,650 --> 01:09:30,009
those things into it you know III don't

1486
01:09:33,660 --> 01:09:31,660
know he actually you know told me later

1487
01:09:35,459 --> 01:09:33,670
said well Jim you know I I really didn't

1488
01:09:36,809 --> 01:09:35,469
want you to report that I was hinting

1489
01:09:39,300 --> 01:09:36,819
about having flown in one because I

1490
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:39,310
don't want that to detract from the main

1491
01:09:44,340 --> 01:09:41,170
story the main story being that these

1492
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:44,350
are absolutely hours and he's indicating

1493
01:09:49,229 --> 01:09:47,049
that you know he wants he thinks it's

1494
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:49,239
not right that the pilots who are still

1495
01:09:53,670 --> 01:09:50,770
struggling with this experience that

1496
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:53,680
they had you know they haven't been

1497
01:09:56,580 --> 01:09:55,090
clued in to what this is so the

1498
01:09:58,290 --> 01:09:56,590
commander's new yet the pilots

1499
01:09:59,820 --> 01:09:58,300
themselves still today one was just

1500
01:10:01,620 --> 01:09:59,830
interviewed for two hours by Joe Rogan

1501
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:01,630
still doesn't know what this was and he

1502
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:05,050
didn't and he's disseminating the

1503
01:10:08,370 --> 01:10:06,610
information in part for that reason but

1504
01:10:10,140 --> 01:10:08,380
in part because he's saying hey this is

1505
01:10:13,410 --> 01:10:10,150
gonna be a slow leak of information out

1506
01:10:17,190 --> 01:10:13,420
because the news of these is we're gonna

1507
01:10:20,130 --> 01:10:17,200
start learning about more and more well

1508
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:20,140
for my money you know we need to focus

1509
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:23,530
on the tic-tac sighting for now you know

1510
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:26,530
this has only come out really properly

1511
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:29,170
in the last year I mean not even quite a

1512
01:10:38,070 --> 01:10:33,489
year yet and there is so much to study

1513
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:38,080
on that alone you know that the Navy

1514
01:10:42,690 --> 01:10:40,000
sighting as I said the data that

1515
01:10:46,530 --> 01:10:42,700
surrounds that has a high degree of

1516
01:10:49,020 --> 01:10:46,540
verisimilitude about it for me and makes

1517
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:49,030
it worthy of study the stuff around the

1518
01:10:55,020 --> 01:10:51,250
periphery of that for me is just smoke

1519
01:10:57,450 --> 01:10:55,030
and mirrors and it detracts from the

1520
01:11:02,430 --> 01:10:57,460
real value of of what we have which is

1521
01:11:05,340 --> 01:11:02,440
we have a branch of the US Armed

1522
01:11:08,450 --> 01:11:05,350
Services the US Navy saying that a

1523
01:11:12,330 --> 01:11:08,460
phenomenon that it's pilots and its

1524
01:11:14,459 --> 01:11:12,340
carrier groups encountered on both sea

1525
01:11:19,110 --> 01:11:14,469
boards of the United States over the

1526
01:11:20,910 --> 01:11:19,120
past 15 years turned out to be real we

1527
01:11:23,459 --> 01:11:20,920
should take that seriously that's a May

1528
01:11:26,729 --> 01:11:23,469
to breakthrough it says that you know

1529
01:11:29,550 --> 01:11:26,739
all the speculations surrounding what

1530
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:29,560
the military believes about UFOs now has

1531
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:33,010
something that you can push against you

1532
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:35,530
know it kick the tires of it's real but

1533
01:11:40,890 --> 01:11:38,050
we don't understand what it is you know

1534
01:11:43,050 --> 01:11:40,900
now let's pick it apart and really try

1535
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:43,060
and understand what it is so you know

1536
01:11:46,740 --> 01:11:45,250
that's that's where I go I don't head

1537
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:46,750
off into those deeper realms of

1538
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:48,850
speculation and also disinformation is a

1539
01:11:52,020 --> 01:11:50,400
real thing - right I mean theoretically

1540
01:11:55,350 --> 01:11:52,030
turbo could be some type of

1541
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:55,360
disinformation agent bingo I mean it

1542
01:11:58,919 --> 01:11:56,080
could be

1543
01:12:01,080 --> 01:11:58,929
I'm not leveling this this at him

1544
01:12:03,650 --> 01:12:01,090
specifically but as I said it is part of

1545
01:12:06,540 --> 01:12:03,660
the military's mandate to dis inform and

1546
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:06,550
there's lots to dis inform about and

1547
01:12:13,620 --> 01:12:09,489
lots to dis inform - I mean in the end

1548
01:12:15,930 --> 01:12:13,630
it's not we aren't the the sort of the

1549
01:12:18,990 --> 01:12:15,940
end game of the disinformation loop here

1550
01:12:20,939 --> 01:12:19,000
it you want would want to dis inform

1551
01:12:24,780 --> 01:12:20,949
your adversaries and if your adversaries

1552
01:12:26,970 --> 01:12:24,790
are in a nutshell Russia and China you

1553
01:12:29,610 --> 01:12:26,980
would hope that somehow or other this is

1554
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:29,620
going to have some impact on them so you

1555
01:12:35,490 --> 01:12:32,110
know we become the the medium the

1556
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:35,500
conduit the channel through which and by

1557
01:12:39,540 --> 01:12:36,130
whom

1558
01:12:42,180 --> 01:12:39,550
this stuff is disseminated to the people

1559
01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:42,190
you want to get this bad information -

1560
01:12:49,250 --> 01:12:45,300
and maybe you hope that they in some way

1561
01:12:51,780 --> 01:12:49,260
get manipulated by it they waste

1562
01:12:54,150 --> 01:12:51,790
billions of dollars or rubles or

1563
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:54,160
whatever it is developing stuff that

1564
01:12:59,370 --> 01:12:56,770
perhaps is irrelevant or you know you

1565
01:13:03,330 --> 01:12:59,380
know what I mean it it it has a purpose

1566
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:03,340
but its purpose is often very hard to